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	<title>Comments on: LDS Wealth</title>
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	<link>http://www.bycommonconsent.com/2008/05/lds-wealth/</link>
	<description>By Common Consent is the pre-eminent Mormon blog.</description>
	<pubDate>Thu, 20 Nov 2008 11:10:15 +0000</pubDate>
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		<title>By: Cicero</title>
		<link>http://www.bycommonconsent.com/2008/05/lds-wealth/#comment-179980</link>
		<dc:creator>Cicero</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 21 May 2008 06:14:22 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.bycommonconsent.com/?p=3800#comment-179980</guid>
		<description>In my experience I have found there is little correlation between wealth and righteousness, or wealth and wickedness.

Instead I have found that love of wealth tends to be highly correlated with wickedness.  Whether it's the wealthy who love their own wealth or the poor who covet the wealth of others.  Either tends to lead to significant sin.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>In my experience I have found there is little correlation between wealth and righteousness, or wealth and wickedness.</p>
<p>Instead I have found that love of wealth tends to be highly correlated with wickedness.  Whether it&#8217;s the wealthy who love their own wealth or the poor who covet the wealth of others.  Either tends to lead to significant sin.</p>
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		<title>By: salt h2o</title>
		<link>http://www.bycommonconsent.com/2008/05/lds-wealth/#comment-179965</link>
		<dc:creator>salt h2o</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 20 May 2008 22:25:22 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.bycommonconsent.com/?p=3800#comment-179965</guid>
		<description>This may be a radical idea but how about...


They pay TITHING. 


Do we really believe that paying tithing will open up the windows of heaven?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>This may be a radical idea but how about&#8230;</p>
<p>They pay TITHING. </p>
<p>Do we really believe that paying tithing will open up the windows of heaven?</p>
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		<title>By: MoJim</title>
		<link>http://www.bycommonconsent.com/2008/05/lds-wealth/#comment-179964</link>
		<dc:creator>MoJim</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 20 May 2008 22:05:55 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.bycommonconsent.com/?p=3800#comment-179964</guid>
		<description>This discussion reminds me of something my finance professor at BYU said. He was trying to dispel the myth many members have that being financially prosperous is a sign of righteousness. He said that in his experience the opposite is true: there is generally an inverse relationship between a person's wealth and their level of righteousness.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>This discussion reminds me of something my finance professor at BYU said. He was trying to dispel the myth many members have that being financially prosperous is a sign of righteousness. He said that in his experience the opposite is true: there is generally an inverse relationship between a person&#8217;s wealth and their level of righteousness.</p>
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		<title>By: Ray</title>
		<link>http://www.bycommonconsent.com/2008/05/lds-wealth/#comment-179906</link>
		<dc:creator>Ray</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 20 May 2008 01:53:39 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.bycommonconsent.com/?p=3800#comment-179906</guid>
		<description>Sarah, if you end up in Reynoldsburg, say hello to the Brevards.  Their daughter dated my little brother for a short time out in Utah.  

Back to our regularly scheduled programming.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Sarah, if you end up in Reynoldsburg, say hello to the Brevards.  Their daughter dated my little brother for a short time out in Utah.  </p>
<p>Back to our regularly scheduled programming.</p>
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		<title>By: Sarah</title>
		<link>http://www.bycommonconsent.com/2008/05/lds-wealth/#comment-179889</link>
		<dc:creator>Sarah</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 20 May 2008 00:40:27 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.bycommonconsent.com/?p=3800#comment-179889</guid>
		<description>I'm about to move into downtown Columbus (about 20 miles from my home.)  I'm going to be right near the border between the four Columbus stakes -- if I plan things right, I'll actually stay in my stake, and even in my same building; a move just two blocks to the north or south will put me in a whole other stake, despite the fact that my current stake boundaries extend all the way to the border with West Virginia.  But no matter where I move downtown, I'll have a half-hour drive to my assigned ward building -- it'll be in Grove City, Reynoldsburg, or Hilliard.

Shockingly, the economic profile of active Columbus-area Mormons is much closer to the suburban Pickerington/Dublin/ Clintonville/Bexley average (these are the places where the mayor, the president of Ohio State, the head of the Limited corporation, etc., live) than to the downtown population.  From what I understand, this central area was so needy that the original wards were dissolved and the population divided amongst the stakes: if I stay in my stake, many of my neighbors will be Section 8 recipients but my ward members will be some of the wealthiest people in the state.

It doesn't hurt that HUGE numbers of Mormons out here go to dental school/law school/etc. -- and all the kids, even in the poorest, most dysfunctional wards, at least graduate from high school.  There's also all the RM "I can speak a foreign language and know how to pay my rent on time and talk to people" experience.

But I imagine the same kinds of things affect these numbers in Mexico (and everywhere else, too.)  And they have the PEF, and at least occasional contact -- even from a distance -- with very successful people (visiting GAs, etc.) on top of everything else, which opportunities aren't all that common for most Mexicans, I'm sure.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;m about to move into downtown Columbus (about 20 miles from my home.)  I&#8217;m going to be right near the border between the four Columbus stakes &#8212; if I plan things right, I&#8217;ll actually stay in my stake, and even in my same building; a move just two blocks to the north or south will put me in a whole other stake, despite the fact that my current stake boundaries extend all the way to the border with West Virginia.  But no matter where I move downtown, I&#8217;ll have a half-hour drive to my assigned ward building &#8212; it&#8217;ll be in Grove City, Reynoldsburg, or Hilliard.</p>
<p>Shockingly, the economic profile of active Columbus-area Mormons is much closer to the suburban Pickerington/Dublin/ Clintonville/Bexley average (these are the places where the mayor, the president of Ohio State, the head of the Limited corporation, etc., live) than to the downtown population.  From what I understand, this central area was so needy that the original wards were dissolved and the population divided amongst the stakes: if I stay in my stake, many of my neighbors will be Section 8 recipients but my ward members will be some of the wealthiest people in the state.</p>
<p>It doesn&#8217;t hurt that HUGE numbers of Mormons out here go to dental school/law school/etc. &#8212; and all the kids, even in the poorest, most dysfunctional wards, at least graduate from high school.  There&#8217;s also all the RM &#8220;I can speak a foreign language and know how to pay my rent on time and talk to people&#8221; experience.</p>
<p>But I imagine the same kinds of things affect these numbers in Mexico (and everywhere else, too.)  And they have the PEF, and at least occasional contact &#8212; even from a distance &#8212; with very successful people (visiting GAs, etc.) on top of everything else, which opportunities aren&#8217;t all that common for most Mexicans, I&#8217;m sure.</p>
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		<title>By: david knowlton</title>
		<link>http://www.bycommonconsent.com/2008/05/lds-wealth/#comment-179863</link>
		<dc:creator>david knowlton</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 19 May 2008 22:02:58 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.bycommonconsent.com/?p=3800#comment-179863</guid>
		<description>The issue of rides, and the comparison with Churches which do provide vans, shows how the Church can select in favor of some kinds of members.  

As Randall points out, this situation raises difficulties if one thinks through theological implications.  Who is heaven for?  

As Cicero and Frank point out, there are often advantages to being a member of the Church that can lead to improvement's of a member's financial situation.  One could add to these the perpetual Education fund which helps people obtain an education that improves their social standing.  There is still the earlier question, though.  Does the Church's structure favor some kinds of people over others?  While the two concerns are probably not separable  given the data we have they are important.    

The anthropologist in me is not surprised that different denominations favor different social groups.  But the religious person wonders about the sacred significance.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The issue of rides, and the comparison with Churches which do provide vans, shows how the Church can select in favor of some kinds of members.  </p>
<p>As Randall points out, this situation raises difficulties if one thinks through theological implications.  Who is heaven for?  </p>
<p>As Cicero and Frank point out, there are often advantages to being a member of the Church that can lead to improvement&#8217;s of a member&#8217;s financial situation.  One could add to these the perpetual Education fund which helps people obtain an education that improves their social standing.  There is still the earlier question, though.  Does the Church&#8217;s structure favor some kinds of people over others?  While the two concerns are probably not separable  given the data we have they are important.    </p>
<p>The anthropologist in me is not surprised that different denominations favor different social groups.  But the religious person wonders about the sacred significance.</p>
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		<title>By: Noray</title>
		<link>http://www.bycommonconsent.com/2008/05/lds-wealth/#comment-179842</link>
		<dc:creator>Noray</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 19 May 2008 20:16:43 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.bycommonconsent.com/?p=3800#comment-179842</guid>
		<description>Maybe the person who said that was mistaken, but not having control over who drives a "church van" could result in increased liability for the church, self insured or otherwise.  I expect there would be some concern about maintenance as well unless a vehicle was purchased new or with an extended warranty.  Certainly the church is not going to spend the money to provide new vans for every Branch and ward. Most units would not be able to buy one with local donations.  And then there is the cost of gas! 

Perhaps the whole 'self reliance' thing gets in the way of providing church owned transportation too.  

Actually I am in favor of members providing rides for members.  I think it helps build the community of Saints.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Maybe the person who said that was mistaken, but not having control over who drives a &#8220;church van&#8221; could result in increased liability for the church, self insured or otherwise.  I expect there would be some concern about maintenance as well unless a vehicle was purchased new or with an extended warranty.  Certainly the church is not going to spend the money to provide new vans for every Branch and ward. Most units would not be able to buy one with local donations.  And then there is the cost of gas! </p>
<p>Perhaps the whole &#8217;self reliance&#8217; thing gets in the way of providing church owned transportation too.  </p>
<p>Actually I am in favor of members providing rides for members.  I think it helps build the community of Saints.</p>
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		<title>By: Eric Russell</title>
		<link>http://www.bycommonconsent.com/2008/05/lds-wealth/#comment-179841</link>
		<dc:creator>Eric Russell</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 19 May 2008 20:10:09 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.bycommonconsent.com/?p=3800#comment-179841</guid>
		<description>We rented a city bus once to pick everyone up for stake conference down in southern Brazil.

It was worth it just for the look on the faces of the folks who were standing at bus stops when we passed by without stopping.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>We rented a city bus once to pick everyone up for stake conference down in southern Brazil.</p>
<p>It was worth it just for the look on the faces of the folks who were standing at bus stops when we passed by without stopping.</p>
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		<title>By: Steve Evans</title>
		<link>http://www.bycommonconsent.com/2008/05/lds-wealth/#comment-179839</link>
		<dc:creator>Steve Evans</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 19 May 2008 19:47:21 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.bycommonconsent.com/?p=3800#comment-179839</guid>
		<description>Noray, the Church self-insures.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Noray, the Church self-insures.</p>
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		<title>By: Noray</title>
		<link>http://www.bycommonconsent.com/2008/05/lds-wealth/#comment-179838</link>
		<dc:creator>Noray</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 19 May 2008 19:46:52 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.bycommonconsent.com/?p=3800#comment-179838</guid>
		<description>We have been told that the church will not allow that for insurance reasons.  We actually have someone who would buy us a van if it were acceptable.  Of course, then you need someone to drive it.  I guess we could have a Transportation Coordinator calling.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>We have been told that the church will not allow that for insurance reasons.  We actually have someone who would buy us a van if it were acceptable.  Of course, then you need someone to drive it.  I guess we could have a Transportation Coordinator calling.</p>
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